Chat logs of #funderscore for Sunday, 2024-09-15

00:10 <[R]/h> Got nerd sniped on parsing rgss3a and rvdata2 files

00:10 <[R]/h> Fucking hell I hate both formats so fucking much

00:36 <runxiyu> f_: Sure, feel free to archive

00:36 <runxiyu> f_: Also note https://git.runxiyu.org/runxiyu/www.git is... literally an archive of another kind

00:36 <runxiyu> though it doesn't contain the last "this site is archived please see runxiyu.org" message

00:38 <JAA/h> Yo dawg, I herd you like archives...

00:39 <JAA/h> I forgot to mention, I also archived the subdomains on the TLS cert, though most of them are broken in some way.

00:42 <runxiyu> yeah my tls setup is half broken

00:42 <runxiyu> well

00:42 <runxiyu> not the tls setup itself

00:42 <runxiyu> just that i don't bother to removed unused subdomains

00:42 <runxiyu> because certbot makes it hard to do that

00:42 <runxiyu> probably switching to acme-client in the future?

00:44 <JAA/h> Ah yeah, certbot... I tried that out once, when Let's Encrypt was new and the tool was still called letsencrypt, and immediately yeeted it into the abyss.

00:45 <JAA/h> I then used simp_le for a long time, but not sure that's still maintained.

00:45 <JAA/h> Now I use Caddy as my reverse proxy, which handles all of that internally.

00:45 <runxiyu> JAA: I want to use acme-client but I don't actually care about the heavily privilege separated model especially when running on a Linux-based system

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02:04 <Noisytoot/ef> runxiyu: self-host DNS and get a wildcard cert

02:05 <runxiyu> Noisytoot: Wellll

02:05 <runxiyu> "Sometime"

02:05 <runxiyu> Also I don't have a backup server

02:05 <runxiyu> Well, I could ask phillw if I could use tuxiversity for that

02:06 <Noisytoot/ef> I can provide that

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03:21 <TheTechRobo/h> Can second Caddy. J.AA pushed me onto it. Muuuuuuch nicer than nginx.

03:49 <Noisytoot/ef> I use certbot with the DNS challenge, nsd, and https://git.noisytoot.org/noisytoot/acme-dns-zonefile

03:54 <Noisytoot/ef> which I run using uwsgi and nginx and access over HTTP to avoid the bootstrapping issue of requiring a TLS cert in order to renew my TLS cert (which isn't a problem since it's on the same host)

04:00 <Noisytoot/ef> it's a mostly-complete (everything except allowfrom is supported) reimplementation of the acme-dns API in python that writes to a zonefile instead of acting as a DNS server, and also serves its own source code to ensure AGPL compliance: https://auth.noisytoot.org/

04:00 <Noisytoot/ef> the database is also supposed to be compatible with acme-dns but I haven't tested this

04:01 <Noisytoot/ef> currently it only serves its source code over HTTP, maybe I should make it do it over DNS too

04:05 <Noisytoot/ef> serving your own source code is a great idea and more stuff should do it. I also have this incomplete pissnet saslserv backend that does that: https://sasl.noisytoot.org/

04:05 <Noisytoot/ef> AGPL is the best license

04:11 <Noisytoot/ef> allowfrom support shouldn't be that hard to add, I just haven't bothered to do it

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05:15 <runxiyu> TheTechRobo: How much nicer is it?

05:15 <runxiyu> Noisytoot: Use gunicorn instead

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08:53 <JAA/h> runxiyu: So long as you don't want to do something fancy (like a wildcard cert), it requires zero thinking about TLS. You write a tiny Caddyfile that mentions the domain, and it automatically requests and renews certs without you ever noticing anything except a few log messages about it.

09:22 <katia|/h> 🤓  kubernetes + cert-manager + ingress-nginx works well too

10:15 <runxiyu> JAA: I need TLS for many services other than HTTPS

10:17 <runxiyu> JAA: e.g. I host or may host: IRC, IMAPS, SMTPS, ememo, IDC (kinda defunct custom protocols)

10:24 *** Quits: katia|/h (katia@2001:41d0:a:14d8:ca75:ca75:ca75:ca75) (Client Quit)

10:24 <f_> yes irc.andrewyu.org is a thing - only network where IRC services run on hax's laptop

10:26 <runxiyu> might want to update all domains to irc.runxiyu.org

10:26 <runxiyu> i'll probably cname it though

10:26 <runxiyu> and make runxiyu.org have andrewyu.org's tls certs

10:26 <f_/h> runxiyu_: good

10:27 <f_/h> many connect to irc.andrewyu.org so..

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11:05 *** f_ sets mode: +a Noisytoot

12:09 <f_/h> created a new #funderscore-matrix channel

12:47 <f_/h> feel free to join if you wanna see matrix users getting forwarded there and unable to talk

12:47 *** f_/h sets mode: -b *!*@fd1a:6295:5133::2099

12:50 *** f_/h sets mode: +e f_[m]!*@*

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12:52 *** moist/h sets mode: +b *!*@fd1a:6295:5133::2099

12:52 *** moist/h sets mode: -e f_[m]!*@*

12:52 *** f_[m]/h was kicked by moist/h (User is banned from this channel)

12:52 *** f_/h sets mode: +e f_[m]!*@*

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12:52 *** moist/h sets mode: -e f_[m]!*@*

12:52 *** f_[m]/h was kicked by moist/h (User is banned from this channel)

12:52 *** f_/h sets mode: +e f_[m]!*@*

12:52 <f_/h> moist needs to stop undoing my own changes

12:52 <f_/h> !help

12:52 <f_/h> !flags +e

12:52 <f_/h> !help flags

12:53 <f_/h> !flags f_[m]*!*@* +e

12:53 -moist/h- f_ (funderscore) set flags +e on f_[m]*!*@*

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12:53 <f_/h> !akick list

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12:57 <f_/h> !flags f_[m]*!*@* -e

12:57 -moist/h- f_ (funderscore) set flags -e on f_[m]*!*@*

12:57 *** Parts: f_[m]/h (~fundersco@fd1a:6295:5133::2099) ()

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12:58 *** moist/h sets mode: -e f_[m]!*@*

12:58 *** f_[m]/h was kicked by moist/h (User is banned from this channel)

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13:40 <exxxxkc/h> a

13:46 <f_> hi

13:48 <f_/h> right so, sadly we lost one op on Hackint :'(

13:48 <f_/h> does anyone want +o for the purposes of banning spammers and such

13:49 <f_/h> (RIP fireonlive)

14:22 <f_/h> runxiyu_: are you active on Hackint

14:24 *** f_ sets mode: +w o:R:runxiyu

14:24 *** f_ sets mode: +w a:R:runxiyu

14:24 *** f_ sets mode: +oao Noisytoot runxiyu runxiyu

15:04 <katia-/h> f_: I’ll take it

15:16 <f_[x]/h> !flags katia +Oo

15:16 -moist/h- f_[x] (funderscore) set flags +Oo on katia

15:16 *** f_[x]/h sets mode: +oo katia-/h katia/h

15:16 <f_[x]/h> have fun

15:18 <f_[x]/h> don't destroy the chan

15:18 <f_[x]/h> !flags #funderscore

15:18 <f_[x]/h> thank you

15:30 * katia-/h bans self

15:34 <f_[x]/h> eh too bad

16:32 * hax still has a bunch of hax@andrewyu.org's around

16:32 <hax[xor]> probably plenty of which I've forgotten about

16:41 <hax[xor]> also: software that serves its own source is usually bloat, and even more so if the software is using a protocol that doesn't support serving its own source, so now you also have to write another protocol into it to serve its source over, and additionally still violate AGPL if the port for that got blocked but not the main one

16:45 <Noisytoot/ef> HTTP and DNS both do support serving source code

16:46 <Noisytoot/ef> it is not bloat, it is a useful feature that prevents accidental AGPL-violation

16:48 <hax[xor]> it is bloat, and not using AGPL'd stuff is the best, and possibly only, way to *prevent* accidental (on your part) AGPL violation

16:48 <hax[xor]> bug prevents source-giving code from working or being reached? AGPL violation!

16:48 <hax[xor]> ISP filters your outgoing traffic? AGPL violation!

16:49 <Noisytoot/ef> if it's served over the same protocol and encrypted, ISP can't do that

16:49 <hax[xor]> ISP gets quantuum computers, breaks your encryption, filters it anyways

16:50 <Noisytoot/ef> why are you using old broken cryptography when your ISP has quantum computers?

16:50 <hax[xor]> and it'll be *you* violating the AGPL, not the ISP, because the ISP isn't the one running the program/whatever

16:50 <Noisytoot/ef> ISP would probably be violating other laws by decrypting your traffic

16:51 <hax[xor]> how about ISP filters client's network, and the client lives somewhere where it's legal for the ISP to do that

16:53 <Noisytoot/ef> Notwithstanding any other provision of this License, if you modify the Program, your modified version must prominently offer all users interacting with it remotely through a computer network (if your version supports such interaction) an opportunity to receive the Corresponding Source of your version by providing access to the Corresponding Source from a network server at no charge, through some

16:53 <Noisytoot/ef> standard or customary means of facilitating copying of software. This Corresponding Source shall include the Corresponding Source for any work covered by version 3 of the GNU General Public License that is incorporated pursuant to the following paragraph.

16:53 <Noisytoot/ef> you are still offering an opportunity to receive the source

16:53 <hax[xor]> oh, good idea

16:54 <hax[xor]> we should just make offers and not actually serve it

16:54 <hax[xor]> AGPL bypassed successfully

17:04 *** katia/h sets mode: -oo katia/h katia-/h

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17:17 <f_/h> katia: you don't want op?

17:19 <[R]/h> I'm game for spambusting here

17:19 <[R]/h> Why were you banning yourself though?

17:22 <f_/h> katia didn't ban themself though :P

17:22 *** f_/h sets mode: +o [R]/h

17:22 *** f_/h sets mode: -o [R]/h

17:22 <f_/h> !flags [R] +Oo

17:22 -moist/h- f_ (funderscore) set flags +Oo on [R]

17:22 <f_/h> !sync

17:22 -moist/h- f_ (funderscore) used SYNC.

17:22 *** moist/h sets mode: -o+ooo f_[l]/h katia-/h [R]/h katia/h

17:23 <f_/h> Hey! Why did you deop f_[l]!

17:23 <[R]/h> lol

17:23 *** f_/h sets mode: +o f_[l]/h

17:23 <f_/h> f_[l] is a thelounge thing I don't use often

17:24 <f_[l]/h> hi

17:24 <f_[l]/h> That thing is a The Lounge instance hosted @ andrewyu.org

17:25 <f_[l]/h> I don't use if often because I don't really particularly like webapps, but still I wanted to try it out.

17:25 <[R]/h> Doesn't thelounge have an API?

17:26 <[R]/h> IMO that's what I'd mainly want to use it for

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17:32 <f_[l]/h> I don't know

17:32 <f_[l]/h> But I will say, it is muuuuuch better than Element.

17:38 *** Parts: exxxxkc/h (12ac0e80cc@disroot.org) ()

17:39 <[R]/h> Oh, the API is local, it's not REST or RPC

17:39 <[R]/h> D:

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17:54 <f_[l]/h> [R] I'd rather use this client rather than Element

17:54 <f_[l]/h> do you know how well Element performs, even?

17:54 <f_[l]/h> it manages to make my laptop overheat..

17:54 <f_[l]/h> eats lots of RAM too..

17:54 <f_[l]/h> I 'only' have 8 GB of RAM..

17:55 <[R]/h> I wasn't suggesting you switch

17:55 <[R]/h> Was just looking into it for my own uses

17:56 <f_[l]/h> I did not assume you were suggesting I switch :D

17:56 <f_[l]/h> But generally I'm very happy with my current bouncer setup + XMPP

17:56 <f_[l]/h> XMPP is fallback, for anything IRC

17:56 *** Quits: f_[l]/h (thelounge@andrewyu.org) (Quit: Owl Association)

17:56 <f_/h> oopsie

17:57 <f_[l]> well oopsie

17:57 <f_[l]> I thought /quit closed the client

17:57 <f_[l]> but it removed the entire network

17:58 <f_/h> Eh that's one less alt connection :D

17:58 <f_/h> I just have so many alt connections

17:59 <f_/h> I have: f_[x], f_[z], f_[l], f_[m], f_|aop, etc...

17:59 * hax[xor] counts f_s

17:59 <hax[xor]> 13 on #funderscore-sucks :P

17:59 <f_/h> first one is XMPP, second one is a ZNC, third one you already know, fourth one is an unused matrix puppet, fifth one is f_[z] but on EFnet

18:00 <f_/h> hax[xor] you're counting the number of f_'s in total, not just the number of alts

18:00 <hax[xor]> it counts as alts since it's the same channel

18:00 <hax[xor]> just bridged

18:00 <f_/h> no

18:02 <f_[l]> most of the alts are on rx and perhaps also OFTC

18:02 <f_[l]> err, I have no alts currently connected to OFTC

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19:31 <JAA/h> runxiyu: Hmm, right. Yeah, Caddy's not suitable for that.

19:33 <JAA/h> hax[xor]: Not actually serving it might violate the AGPL. Serving it and throttling the download to a ridiculously low rate might work.

19:33 <JAA/h> Like one byte per month or something.

19:34 <hax[xor]> lol interesting

19:35 <hax[xor]> (interesting point, I mean)

19:37 <JAA/h> Also, obligatory link to marcan's rant about the AGPL: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30044019

20:17 <katia/h> i like bsd 3 clause

20:27 <Noisytoot/ef> I don't because it allows proprietary derivatives

20:27 <Noisytoot/ef> GPL (and LGPL/AGPL) are better at ensuring freedom

20:28 <Juest/h> lol

20:28 <Juest/h> but copyleft sucks

20:28 <f_[x]/h> copyleft is good

20:29 <f_[x]/h> permissive is good too

20:29 <f_[x]/h> I use both

20:29 <katia/h> same

20:29 <f_[x]/h> but pls no license wars lol

20:29 <katia/h> lets do distro wars

20:30 <f_[x]/h> no

20:30 <katia/h> ok

20:30 <f_[x]/h> not while I'm not in front of my computer

20:30 <f_[x]/h> 🤣

20:38 <Juest/h> well but also people have abused those licenses too, see hyperbola linux statements on trademark bullying

20:39 <Juest/h> and reasons they refuse to include/ship java, rust, nodejs,

20:44 <JAA/h> Trademarks are a whole different issue from copyright though.

20:54 <f_[x]> I'm not a lawyer

21:00 <JAA/h> You ANAL?

21:05 <f_[x]/h> what is it

21:06 <f_[x]/h> A DDG search shows nothing but garbage

21:07 <f_[x]/h> Why does DDG block yt-dl but not p*rnhub...

21:08 <katia/h> bing is for porn

21:09 <f_[x]/h> And I don't want any of that here. Please keep the channel PG-13

21:10 <f_[x]/h> aka. child/family-friendly

21:20 <f_[x]> What in the world

21:20 <f_[x]> http://www.9front.org/releases/2023/11/22/0/

23:50 <[R]/h> 14:27:28 <@rxbridge> <@Noisytoot/ef> GPL (and LGPL/AGPL) are better at ensuring freedom <-- .*GPLv3 or GTFO

23:50 <[R]/h> <@f_[x]> but pls no license wars lol <-- sorry

23:52 <[R]/h> f_: What's off in that 9front release/

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23:55 *** moist/h sets mode: +o [R]/h

23:55 <[R]/h> f_: What's off in that 9front release?